The Difference Between 10 and 25-man Speccing

Those of us who are currently running 25-man content know how easy mana is to come by. But think back to the 10-man days…remember stopping to drink after every pull?

Lately as <Explicit> has been moving on in content, I’ve been neglecting review of 10-man runs. But quite a few of you readers are progressing through 10’s, and I don’t want you guys to get the wrong idea. If you were to armory me right now, you’d see a very odd spec, one that simply is not mana-efficient. If you’re running 10-man content, PLEASE DO NOT USE THAT KIND OF SPEC! Your DPS will actually go down, not up. I was reminded of this on our 10-man Malygos last night. >.> Here are a few examples of 10-man specs vs. 25-man –

10-Man Viable Raid Specs

For Folks with :

Low Hit Rating, No Aimed in rotation for mana conservation

Low Hit Rating, benefits from Rapid Recup (most Naxx) No Aimed (points can be swapped to incorporate Barrage)

High Hit Rating, High Critical Strike chance, Benefits from Rapid Recup No Aimed (points can be swapped to incorporate Barrage)

VS. 25-man Viable Raid Specs

For Folks with :

High Crit, Hit-Capped

Medium Hit Rating, High Crit, Frequent Use of Aimed Shot

Hit Capped, High Crit, in Need of Mana Returns from Rapid Recup

With so many different options these days, you have to be on your toes. Think about what you have the most trouble with, and chances are, you can spec yourself differently to accomidate. Just experiment a little. These are not the only specs you can use. “Cookie Cutter” doesn’t mean a whole lot in terms of Marksmanship raiding anymore. There’s too much of a difference between 10-man, 25-man, Naxx and Malygos, and your own raiding groups. All I can say is, I can’t wait for Dual Spec.

Hope that helps you see some perspective. Start thinking about your own experiences and how you can better yourself in those individual situations. =)

❤ Nass

P.S. The move went well, and I’m almost fully situated in Virginia. But now I have to wake up at 5:00am every morning to go to work. Be prepared for a cranky Nass.


~ by Kelly Jennelle on February 9, 2009.

23 Responses to “The Difference Between 10 and 25-man Speccing”

  1. Glad the move went well! Good article! People may get confused on the two. I did some 25mans yesterday and didn’t drink once, and AoTV only twice. Then I ran a 10man OS and I was drinking every pull. What a difference!

  2. You should move here to Cali, you can sleep in to 9am everyday and wear shorts in the winter.

    Hey just curous, why did you put points into IHM? I only advise that for 1 hunter in a raid group when your raid has 4 or more other hunters in it.

  3. Yeah, for my group makeup, I gotta have it (should have it). Maybe I should’ve specified…

  4. Alright. So my first time here. Looks nice. Been thinking about going MM for while now. Surv just isent for me. Really looking forward in seeing the proper shot-rotations.

    Side note, Can’t find any “Nassira” in the Armory? What’s up with that?

  5. There are several Nassiras in the Armory – here’s mine –

  6. Sorry I didn’t mean you specifically, I meant the builds you have in this post for others.

    Yes, if you are the buffer hunter in a hunter group with IHM and Glyph of IHM then you are giving 150AP to each hunter so that can be very worthwhile. If I spec into IHM I also tell the other hunters they don’t have to put up HMs so they can each save a CD every 2 min and I make sure to refresh my HM as soon as it falls off.

    What I was curious about however is why your sample specs for others included it. For Solo up to 10 mans it is better to spec elsewhere with those points. For 25 mans with only 1 or 2 Hunters it still isn’t worth it. I would say 3 or 4 Hunters in a raid would make it viable, but even then only 1 Hunter would pick it up, therefore including it into sample builds for others to follow would be questionable.

    Sorry if any of that sounded jerkish, trying my hardest not to come off that way.

  7. Meh, shouldn’t have it in 10-mans, but with Survival being “top dog” right now, I figure if you’re MM, you’re probably the IHM bitch. And like I said, you can swap points here or there to make it viable for you personally. If people can’t figure that one out…well…ain’t my fault.

  8. Lol, Survival can just as well be a IHM bitch as any other spec. would be SV with IHM. The 3 points they put into IHM would have gone into Imp Stings and perhaps one more point in hunting Party of IAotH.

    The individual DPS loss for them would be similar to the DPS loss for a Marks hunter speccing into IHM. SV however has a little more leeway to refresh a mark… while trap dancing you can only fit instant casts while moving so it is possible for a SV hunter to refresh a mark while not losing a CD like a MM hunter would.

    Also not every raid has a few hunters in it… we had 2 hunters go MIA so now we run with just the 2 left. IHM would be a DPS loss for us. But I am with you on people being able to figure things out on their own… unfortunately they usually don’t and just take whatever they find online at face value.

  9. “..point in hunting Party of IAotH.”

    *sorry meant to say Hunting Party OR IAotH.

  10. nass hope the move went well.

  11. glad the move went well. used to get up at 7.45 then I moved and had to get up at 6am, losing nearly 2 hours sleep, it’s hard and sore. For the first month I’d get very very bad stomach pains just because I was awake so early.
    I hope that doesn’t happen to you with your 5am wake ups but just incase it does, yogurt helps 🙂

    Nice builds you have put up there, I’m still in 10 mans and I think I will be for a while 😦

  12. Malygos

    Where’s a build with a -threat modifier, then?

    STUPID DRAGON RAGE KILL DESTROY /cast The Marksman Within

  13. @ Rilgon –

    I’m with you. Fuck that dragon.

    @ Perzyx – Another thing we have to get over is people whining “well it’s not even in my tree”…sometimes you just have to bite the bullet for the team, and if I can take it and still maintain my high DPS, I’ll be the one to take it.

    As for everyone else, make sure you coordinate IHM – regardless of who has it, only one hunter needs it. No need to waste points. And yes, if you only have one other hunter, it’s a waste – however, you do need to reach the later tiers SOMEhow – and I’m not so sure Improved Barrage is really the way to go. 90 straight AP is most likely the better choice, especially if your crit is already high. Obviously when the patch comes out and changes Piercing Shots, that’s where your points will go.


    Thats where you put the points for a hit capped hunter that does not HAVE to pick up IHM for a hunter group. Rapid killing is great with readiness, 4 Rapid Fires in a 3min + fight plus any add killing gives you a shot buff 20% extra dmg on Chimera, aimed, or arcane. And I tell Hunters regardless of what tree they specced 51 pts into that the one most likely to be the IHM buffer is either the one who puts out the lowest DPS or the one who is hit capped without FA since not needing FA opens up available points.

  15. In a perfect world maybe. =P Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do. We’re not all the GL…I do what I can to help.

  16. Sorta off subject, but was wondering if you or any other people have run some tests using Lock & Load with a 51 spec MM. Been curious to see how effective that would be. PS ur awesome

  17. Just noticed i typed my question wrong. What i meant was 61pts in MM and grabbing Lock & Load from Survival instead of getting Aspect Mastery from BM. How effective? Idk. hope u do. thx

  18. It’s not for PVE Pherion. And you had it correct, 51 points. 61 wouldn’t leave you enough to pick up LnL. The whole idea around LnL procs are not the Arcane Shots… it’s the hard hitting Explosive Shots. If you can’t pick up Explosive because you are specced into MM (Chimera) then LnL is almost useless not to mention the other points you had to spend just to get that deep in the tree. Basically more than 7 points in SV is a waste unless you spec SV and pick up Explosive Shot.

  19. Correct.

    Sorry for not posting/commenting recently – I’ve been sick for three days. Didn’t even raid last night and won’t be raiding tonight either.

    But I still ❤ you guys. I’ll be back and kickin’ soon.

  20. I just wanted to leave a note to say thanks – I’ve been hunting for a MM hunter resource, and until recently was only able to find stuff for BM hunters. Love your blog! Keep ’em coming!

  21. aww Nass I love you too 😉

    * you guys know when she said that it was meant for me right? =P

  22. Thx for the help Perzy and Nassira, just been curious if anyone tried something crazy like that. Also (sorta off subject) can anyone confirm the MM patch 3.1 changes(buff ive heard)

  23. just wanted to leave a note to say thanks – I’ve been hunting for a MM hunter resource, and until recently was only able to find stuff for BM hunters.


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